Dita Von Teese on Self-Confidence, Old Hollywood, and Her Historic New Las Vegas Revue
Seductive, vampy, and intoxicatingly enigmatic, Dita Von Teese has innovated an intriguingly transgressive world of vintage glamour, class, opulence, and timeless beauty. Bursting onto the scene in the early 1990s, Von Teese transformed from a “dishwater blonde from a farming town in Michigan” to a raven-haired, red lipstick-swathed siren, becoming a beacon of empowering reinvention and self-confidence for women all over the world.
Her transformation from a revered fetish model and Playboy covergirl to an iconoclastic international superstar was firmly cemented with her 2006 New York Times Bestselling book, Burlesque and the Art of the Teese, where she inspired swaths of women with her vulnerability in speaking openly about glamour and its power of transformation. Since then, Von Teese has become an endearingly daring and perennially relevant icon, performing with allure, sensuality, and unprecedented elegance across the world’s greatest venues and paying homage to Old Hollywood glamour in an indomitable way unlike anyone else ever could.
Yet perhaps most importantly, Von Teese's distinctive style isn't just skin deep – it's deeply intertwined with her remarkably intelligent philosophy and affecting lifestyle. She is invariably herself, irrevocably refusing to conform to any societal norms or expectations. Her audacious style reflects her larger-than-life personality – charismatic, confident, and unapologetically herself. If self-expression is the ultimate exercise in freedom, then Dita Von Teese is its glorious epitome.
KP: So I'll start by saying that I saw The Art of the Teese at Gramercy Theater back in 2017. I had no idea that you were in town until that night, and I was so incredibly lucky to find a ticket because it had already sold out. I went by myself and I remember running home, changing, and immediately jumping into a cab just to make it there on time. Something that struck me – and I remember so vividly – was the quality of the entire show, from the curtains down to the stage design. I know that you have a huge hand in every performance’s development, so where do you usually start with such a major undertaking? And where do you draw that inspiration from?
DVT: God, it's always a major undertaking. Like right now I'm sitting here chipping away at creating this unparalleled show for Vegas. This is the first time I've really had, like, a proper creative team, is here in Vegas. But normally, my creative partner has always been Catherine D'lish. She's a great, great burlesque performer in her own right, but a lot of people know her for making those, like, what-I'm-going-to-be-wearing-when-they-find-my-husband-died-in-mysterious-circumstances robes.
KP: [Laughs].
DVT: So she and I partnered up in 2000 and she's been my right hand in everything, the one who has always since the very beginning pushed me to do more. So I think part of the motivation has always been to one-up myself and for us to do something more. When we met, we didn't want to recreate old-timey burlesque – we wanted to innovate, we wanted to advance it. It's been both relevant and interesting to bring things to it that were never seen in vintage burlesque before. So that's what we did. And I think I've always been motivated by that, especially now that burlesque has become really popular all over the world. I just sit here and think, well, “What can I do to make it even better? Even bigger?” That's a big motivator.
And as far as the actually process, it starts with a lot of half-baked ideas that turn into good ones – and occasionally there's one that doesn't work out – and there's a lot of money and time spent in developing these things. Whether it's a custom prop or a new costume idea or a new kind of feather fan, there's a lot that goes into it and I especially have to thank Catherine for that because she's done things that people take for granted as burlesque style, but they're actually Catherine D'lish style.
If you dive deep into burlesque history, like in the 30s and 40s and 50s, they didn't wear a corset – that would have been like wearing your grandmother's underwear – they would not have done that. So that kind of came from me, loving corsetry and working for a corset company in the early 90s. There's a lot of stuff that people just take for granted, like the belief that you can't do a burlesque show unless you're wearing a corset. But you can dig – and I'm not just saying this to pat myself on the back – but you can literally look in burlesque history and look at every picture of every burlesque performer that you can find and you're not going to find one [corset]. So it's mostly stuff like that – like let's do something different. Let's create something new. And I think the same thing goes for the martini glass act. Like yes, the martini glass and champagne glass girl is iconic imagery, however, Catherine and I created a choreography that is in the glass, and that didn't exist before in classic burlesque. It was a novelty act.
KP: Well you're so progressive in your performance, and I think that's so incredible.
DVT: Yeah, we just want to do new things and change people's minds about what a burlesque show is. Even with this Vegas show, I had a hard time with people asking what took me so long to come to Vegas. What took me so long was that it took a long time for me to get the powers that be to come out and actually see what I was actually doing. Some hotels or casinos, they would offer me a little room with a little stage, like a lounge. But I just played the Chicago Theatre!
KP: Yeah, you need a space a little bigger than that. [Laughs].
DVT: Yeah, and it was sold out! So finally, what happened was Caesars Entertainment and Live Nation came out to see the shows in New York at the Beacon – we've graduated from the Gramercy days – and at the Chicago Theatre, and they were like, "Oh wow, this is a big show." And I said, "Yes, I'm not doing like a little Pussycat Dolls Lounge thing. It's different." So yeah, that's pretty much how it happened.
KP: Well I feel very lucky to have been a part of those Gramercy days.
DVT: Those Gramercy days, they were standing room, they were packed...
KP: Yeah, it was crazy.
DVT: We'd do like six, seven nights sold out. It was really fun, but after a while I remember it got to the point where I was doing two shows a night, like five nights a week – people were standing and the energy was great – but it got to the point especially when I was doing my shows on pointe, that I was dying. I was like, "Wow, I feel like maybe we should have a bigger theater so I don't have to do this for all of this time." So it took a while to convince my promoters and people that it warranted a bigger theater. So, you know, it's been 20 years of baby steps to get to this point.
KP: Yeah, absolutely. So speaking of, you do have this very exciting upcoming residency in Vegas. What can you reveal about it? Or what should we expect from it?
DVT: Well, I think a lot of people know by now that it's in this amazing historic theater called the Jubilee Theater, which was the last great showgirl revue. It ran for 35 years before it closed in 2016. At first it was very daunting to be on a stage that big because it's really big – I mean, it's the size of half a football field. It dwarfs places like the Orpheum or even the Chicago Theatre. It's a historic room – the Rat Pack performed there, among many other iconic Vegas legends – and I was especially excited when I was told that this was a good venue for my show.
I got there and I said to the head of Caesars Entertainment – Caesars owns the the theater – I said, "Where's all of the showgirl costumes? The Bob Mackie costumes? And what are they doing?" And I mean, it was kind of a roll of the dice, but I just asked if I could use them. I think that I have demonstrated the respect that I have for that show. I was a big fan of Jubilee and I always went to see it when I was in Las Vegas. So I am going to incorporate some of these costumes into the show.
I mean, by no means am I trying to do a recreation of Jubilee – there's a number of reasons I don't want to do that, but what I am doing is bringing my show to Vegas, and showcasing some of these beautiful, historic costumes that deserve to be seen under the spotlight in motion and not, like, sitting in a museum, because honestly, the feathers and the quality of everything is perfection. They were so carefully cared for and will continue to be cared for by people that worked on Jubilee, so I'm very proud of that and excited for it.
And I don't even want to use the word "reinventing" the showgirl because I'm not doing that either. It's hard for me to put into words exactly what I'm doing, but I'm staying true to the kind of shows that I do that have made me famous and that have inspired burlesque, and utilizing and showing these showgirl costumes in a new way that I think people will enjoy seeing.
There's some things that, you know, I'm not a big fan of – I've always been about diversity and inclusion in my shows, since the very beginning before it was cool to say that or to do that. And, you know, there's things about the showgirl that I think could be put to rest, like weighing people in and having to be a certain height and a certain body shape, and even a certain gender. We have this saying amongst vintage aficionados: "Vintage style, not vintage values."
KP: I love that.
“I enjoyed wearing red lipstick and 1940s victory rolls and dressing like a femme fatale because if I looked at a fashion magazine featuring Cindy Crawford or Heidi Klum, I was never going to look like that. So that’s really why I looked to the past in order to reinvent and recreate myself – to create glamour and mystique where I didn’t feel like I had it.”
DVT: So, you know, there's a lot of things about the past... I love living in the now, in this day and age. I don't wish that I was born in another era.
KP: And something else that has always stayed with me – like you just said – is the diversity of your casts, which you have become so well-known for throughout the years. But similarly, you yourself also carved out a new standard of beauty for women in the early 2000s, when the idea of beauty at that time was tan, tall, stick thin, and blonde. So what gave you the confidence to carve out your own path in that way? And what advice would you lend to women who are trying to find that same strength and confidence within themselves?
DVT: Yeah. I mean, I don't think – especially now – that I'm the poster child for diversity because like, I'm me, you know? I can't be everything. But I can create this platform where I can cast people with representation in mind, which I do and I've always done naturally. And I never did it because I had to, or because someone told me to, or because it was good for my brand. I always did it because I found that I like people to be inspired and maybe find themselves reflected in a show that they see in some way.
I also found that my favorite burlesque performers were people like Dirty Martini from New York City, people that were just so much fun to watch. I didn't want to do a show of, you know, pin-up girls – I've done that show before, I've done the Crazy Horse. I love the phenomenon of the Crazy Horse where it's a very particular thing and every single girl is the same body shape and the same height and all of that stuff. I did that and it's a neat place, but it's not what I wanted, especially as I advance in life, I think about ageism as well. Like maybe those things were important to me when I was 22, but I think it's good to shine the light on it now.
And, as you know, when I was graduating from high school in 1990, I just was kind of a little plain Jane, you know? Like I'm a dishwater blonde from a farming town in Michigan. I looked at glamour as something that I could create. I love old movies from the 30s and 40s and 50s obviously, and that influenced me, but more than that, it was like, "Well, I can feel special." I enjoyed wearing red lipstick and 1940s victory rolls and dressing like a femme fatale because if I looked at a fashion magazine featuring Cindy Crawford or Heidi Klum, I was never going to look like that. So that's really why I looked to the past in order to reinvent and recreate myself – to create glamour and mystique where I didn't feel like I had it. It was like getting that movie star quality and giving the movie star makeover in a different way, because the modern icons of beauty were not that – they weren't created in the 80s and 90s. So, you know, that's what it was for me. It was about a confidence thing.
But it was also about just enjoying my life. I loved getting dressed. For occasions, I loved wearing a men's tuxedo Marlene Dietrich style out to a club, you know? There's always been people that have done these kinds of things. But I didn't really have anybody around me doing that, and there certainly wasn't a big burlesque or pin-up girl scene in the 90s – it was just starting.
I was also a Playboy model. And I was the only Playboy model that had black hair and white skin and wore corsets and fetish clothes. I was very much the odd man out, right? And it wasn't always easy, because a lot of people didn't get it – they didn't get what I was trying to do. And people would fling insults at me about being dressed like a crazy person, but I just always enjoyed it. So those are just the things that inspired me. When I was young, I wanted to feel different. I wanted to feel special. I wanted to feel glamorous.
KP: Well I'm a recovering natural blonde as well, and no one ever guesses that about me. So yeah, I get it.
DVT: [Laughs].
KP: While I was doing my homework this weekend, I came across a clip from a morning show – I think it was an interview that you did in the UK. And I thought you were touching on such a fascinating point about the audience arc of your career changing, but then you ran out of time. I found it so interesting, so if you’d like to elaborate on it… You spoke of starting your career with a very straight male audience via Playboy in the 90s. But then in the early 2000s, when you came out with your first book that explained your love for the art of burlesque and pin-up... Would you like to finish that statement? I'm assuming that you feel it opened women's minds to the concept, which brought on a very heavy female following. Is that right?
DVT: I came out with a book – I think it was like 2003 or something, I can't remember now – it was with Judith Regan, who was very known for giving people a chance back then. HarperCollins gave me the opportunity to create this monster of a book about burlesque and fetishism, this big colorful picture book with a light version of my story. And I talked about – what I was just saying earlier – how I felt that I didn't have role models of beauty and glamour that I could embody, so I started playing with the tools of the glamour beauty box and created a persona. And I think I was vulnerable about what I didn't feel I had and what I felt excited about creating. It's a very light book that includes my viewpoints on burlesque and pin-up and fetishism because, you know, I should say that I was a fetish model even before I was a Playboy model, so I was definitely attracted the – I won't even say hetero male gaze – but there were a lot of fetishes… corset fetishes, stocking fetishes, all of that.
But yeah, when I told my story, I remember going on The Jonathan Ross Show, which is like primetime television there, and talking about my book. And then the next day I was doing a signing at Harrods and they had to close off the street because there were thousands of people there just to see me. And it was really an emotional moment for me because I remember stepping out of this carriage – I was in a horse-drawn carriage – I stepped out of it and I could see all of these women. And I remember feeling like I had an obligation to not say as many stupid things, like there's some kind of meaning behind what I do now and it's no longer just me doing a striptease at a burlesque show, doing a feather fan dance, or like, you know, Playboy fans – I felt like I now had something else. And I connected it to my book and me talking about glamour and having the power of transformation, how it made me feel. And so I think that's when everything shifted. I can never speak for everybody and there's people probably reading this, like, "Who is this bitch?" You know?
KP: [Laughs].
DVT: People that don't get me at all or don't understand why I'm relevant or talented. People will always have a dislike for women who are harnessing their sexual power and using it in a different way than they've seen before. Because, you know, it's one thing to have a sex tape and apologize for it, but it's another thing to create these stripscapes on stage and to be deliberately flaunting your body – that can make some people angry. And in the same way, it can empower and inspire other people too. So one of the things that I've always loved about what I do is like, "Wow, isn't it interesting how one thing can make someone feel empowered, but the same thing can make people feel offended, degraded, or angry?” But it's just a reminder that there's different strokes for different folks. Someone will take it one way and another person will take it a totally different way. I've always just stuck to my path and done my best to keep my blinders on and keep doing what I do. And also knowing that there's other like-minded people like me that enjoy what I do, that do find it inspiring or interesting…
And then I came out with my second book, which was called Your Beauty Mark: The Ultimate Guide to Eccentric Glamour. And that was my, like, 400 page book that was more of a how-to where I dig deeper into glamour and beauty and all of those things. When I was starting to style myself like a 1940s pin-up girl in the 90s, there were no beauty tutorials, there was no TikTok or YouTube... there was none of that. So I had to just sit there and figure it out. I finally just figured that I should write this book. And, of course, I also have like, video tutorials on all that kind of stuff as well.
“People will always have a dislike for women who are harnessing their sexual power and using it in a different way than they’ve seen before.”
KP: So you were talking about this before... I know that you're quite the old Hollywood film buff – as am I – and when I was poking around this weekend, I actually saw that we follow some of the same Dietrich fan accounts on Instagram, which could probably take us down at least an hours-long discussion about how important she was and how much of a goddess she is. So I won't go there for the sake of time, but I was just wondering – what are some of your favorite films from that era? Let's say the 30s to maybe the 50s?
DVT: Well, first let me say about Dietrich because I don't know if you've ever read the gigantic book that her daughter wrote –
KP: You know, I've only read hers. I've never read Maria's.
DVT: Okay, you have to. Well, I didn't read it for a long time either because, first, I knew people that were friends with Dietrich, and they were like, "Don't read it. It's terrible." And it was also such a big book – I carried it around for years. And then I found out that there was an audiobook of it. It's like 40 hours long and amazing.
KP: [Laughs].
DVT: And I'm actually nearing the end of it. I think I have maybe 10 hours left. I'm already like, “What am I going to do when this book is over?” But it's fascinating to hear her daughter's take, which always isn't always kind, by the way.
KP: Yeah, I've read that. Or heard it, at least.
DVT: Yeah, but it's I feel like it's pretty darn accurate when I listen to it.
KP: [Laughs].
DVT: But it's fascinating. It didn't make me dislike Dietrich. I mean, there's some things about it where you're like, "Oh yeah, but it was another time." You know? There's a lot of stuff in it that can be offensive, but also it was the 1930s – it was a different time.
But as far as favorite films, I love the musical, I love Betty Grable, Carmen Miranda, Rita Hayworth... I've always loved 1940s era Technicolor musicals. It'd be hard for me to name a favorite because sometimes I might have a favorite and then there's bits in it that you just want to fast forward past that are maybe offensive because, again, different time. So I kind of never really name a film, I have a lot of favorites. But you do also have to take it with a bit of guidance if you're someone who's not used to watching those films or someone who doesn't know the history of entertainment in the 1930s and 40s. And when things were very different, you have to be like, "Oh, okay, I'm observing something that doesn't exist anymore, thank goodness." But there's a lot of very, very beautiful moments and the song and dance Technicolor musical has always been what has inspired me more than authentic burlesque because, you know, I never had any authentic burlesque videos to base how I was performing. All I had was Natalie Wood in Gypsy and little bits of Lucille Ball playing a burlesque dancer in a 40s movie, so mostly I took inspiration from those Technicolor musicals and thought, "How would this look if it became a striptease?"
KP: Do you have a favorite film of Dietrich's? I know it's hard because there are so many good ones, but I'm just curious.
DVT: It's hard. I mean –
KP: Mine is actually – well, this is a little controversial – I'm going to say Morocco for the cultural aspects, of course, but my favorite is actually Stage Fright.
DVT: I don't think I've seen Stage Fright?
KP: Oh, it's good. You should see it – it's amazing.
DVT: Listening to this audiobook has made me be like, "Oh, I need to see that." There's all of these stories about her painting her legs gold, which I think was from Morocco. But I could be wrong. I'm very interested in exploring all of the films that she did with Josef von Sternberg. I think that's such a fascinating relationship, like a love relationship that was basically him walking away saying, "I can't work with you anymore because I'm in love with you." So those are the films that are probably their finest in my opinion, at least as far as the look, the lighting –
KP: Yeah, they're just perfection. So you did an interview a while back – I want to say that it may have been about 10 years ago – and I think it was that far back because I remember that your advice was so formative to me in my own relationship development. So the question was about breakups and you said that you would never want to leave a relationship if the last thought that person had about you was a negative one – it was all about leaving with dignity and grace. So for every breakup I've had since – and I'd say I've had maybe three really rough ones since then – I've always tried to employ that. So first of all, I want to thank you for that advice, because I think it's so fantastic. And I've never had an ex not come back. Not saying that I always took them back, but –
DVT: Same. [Laughs].
KP: Yeah, well, you know. [Laughs].
DVT: They always come back,
KP: They always do. But I was just wondering if you had any other sage advice for dealing with breakups in general for our readers, because I thought that guidance was so good.
DVT: It's hard, especially now. I think since then I've evolved even further. I've been working with a relationship therapist because I think it's important – not just for love, but also for business – to think more about relationships. But yeah, I think it's evolved further. I used to think about leaving with dignity or also going cold turkey. I always looked at love relationships a little bit like being on drugs, like you have the infatuation period where you act like a lunatic, and then you fall in love. And there's all of these things about falling in love that give you these feelings that you never want to leave and then when you come off those feelings, you're not really suited to make clear decisions. So at some points in my life I've had a cold turkey situation, like I can't talk to you for a month until I can clear my head and kind of wean myself off of those feelings of like, "Oh my god, what am I going to do? Who am I going to go to the grocery store with now?"
KP: [Laughs].
DVT: "Oh, who am I going to take to the party?" You know, everything's changed. I think that's kind of the hardest part is when you realize how your life changes. But I don't know. I haven't been through a breakup in a pretty long time now, so... [Laughs].
KP: That's a good thing!
DVT: But now I deal more with relationship issues where you're like, "Oh wow, we have to talk it out." And there's that ebb and flow of long-term relationships, the ups and the downs. I like talking to relationship therapists, like I said, so you can get decent advice. Well hopefully you get good advice, if you have a great therapist, instead of getting it from your friends, which sometimes is not always good.
KP: Oh no, it's definitely not always good. [Laughs].
DVT: But sometimes therapists don't give good advice either, so there's that.
KP: That's true. [Laughs].
DVT: It's very difficult, but yeah. I like learning how to talk to people. And I also love reading books about mirroring and what it means when you're actually listening to someone and repeating back to them what you’ve just heard, like that kind of stuff is hard, but they're valid tools, digging into all that kind of stuff. I wish that I had those kinds of tools earlier in life, that someone had taught me more about those things, you know?
KP: Yeah, absolutely.
“Sometimes I think I’d like to be younger so I would have more performing time ahead of me, but at the same time, I would not be opening a Las Vegas show at this historic theater if I were 25. It took years of experience to warrant this opportunity.”
KP: In another interview, you were quoted as saying, “I didn’t really think, ‘I’m going to be famous one day.’ I never said that. I just wanted to be my best at what I was doing in the moment and I thought I was doing something cool that nobody was doing.” and I relate to that so much. I, myself, was never aiming for success, and often I think that’s the best way that it can occur, especially in today’s social media and fame-obsessed world. All of that said, it is so genuine and well-deserved, and something that I love about you is the attention to craft that comes with your work – you can truly tell that you absolutely love what you do and are so incredibly passionate about it. What are you favorite archives to flip through or performers to watch, and how do you keep that spark alive so many years in?
DVT: It’s interesting you should ask, because I just put on That’s Entertainment again, which I used to watch on VHS tapes – I bought it on digital because now I can watch it over and over. I am here in my hotel room in Vegas watching it and commenting out loud to myself about how astonishingly brilliant a bit was, talking to myself about this crazy Venetian curtain moment in a Ziegfeld-directed scene in a 1930s movie – I had to call someone up and show them the scene to marvel in how the hell they did it . You could never even do it today unless you had like Jeff Bezos money and you just felt like making something beautiful – which he never would – so forget that, it’s over. So yeah, classic musicals are the thing that flick my switch into the “on” position. I cant think of much else that does it, to be honest.
KP: You’ve mentioned the thought of almost retiring for fear that you “didn’t look as good as [you] did when [you] were 30,” but later rescinded that when you realized that people didn’t just come to see you because you looked good – that would, in fact, be boring, I agree. It is something that I feel women so disproportionately face – for example, male rock stars are still strutting around on stage well into their 70s and 80s and they’re applauded for it – but I do understand philosophically the struggle that one may have. It is an inevitability for those who are lucky enough to experience it, so can you give any sage advice when it comes to aging, or at least maintaining your confidence while doing so?
DVT: The best advice I ever heard about aging is,"You will never be younger than you are right now, so why worry about it?” Live for now. Don't waste time worrying.
And also, one can be more beautiful as one ages. Look at Carmen Dell’Orefice, who, in my opinion, is more gorgeous in her 80s than she was as a 20-year-old Vogue model in the 1950s. And Julie Newmar is also stunning still in her advanced age.
And while it is true that as we age, we may have more limitations (just as we did when we were children), why not be grateful to experience all of the stages of life? Sometimes I think I’d like to be younger so I would have more performing time ahead of me, but at the same time, I would not be opening a Las Vegas show at this historic theater if I were 25. It took years of experience to warrant this opportunity.
KP: While watching Bombshell: The Hedy Lamarr Story, she had a quote in it that quite literally changed the entire trajectory of my life, and the twists and turns of that have led me all the way to speaking with you right now. She said – and I want to share this with the readers – “If things don’t come easy, figure out why. And do something about it.” I wrote it down as I was watching it in the theater, and for those who haven’t seen it, it’s such an incredible, awe-inspiring film. I know that you’re a fan of hers as well as so many other strong, independent women who have also changed the course of history. Would you mind sharing a few of them?
DVT: Yes, Hedy was amazing. I was so glad they made that film. Another favorite is Mae West. I would recommend reading about her, I love all of her own books, but it’s good to read the biographies about her. I liked She Aways Knew How, which is a great read and also very informative. She was brilliant, powerful, and no one in the history of Hollywood – even now – has ever achieved the things that she did. She was a powerhouse, a sex symbol who made her first film at age 40, made more money than the studio bosses, and wrote every line she ever said in every film or play. She was the first to flip the script, sexualizing and objectifying men onscreen before anyone dared to. I also love Marlene Dietrich. She was such an interesting person.
KP: In the spirit of The Provocateur, we always end our conversations with a namesake question. What is it that you feel makes a “provocative” woman?
DVT: I think a provocative woman incites a reaction, creates motivation, and inspires change.
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Photography: Albert Sanchez and Pedro Zalba
