Janice Dickinson on Honesty, Bravery, and Redemption
Dynamic, commanding, and searingly unapologetic, Janice Dickinson stands as an enduring, empowering figure of reinvention in an industry often resistant to change. Initially rejected by countless modeling agents in the 1970s who deemed her “too ethnic” to work, Janice commandeered a blonde-haired, blue-eyed industry with an unmistakable attitude – and an ax to grind.
What followed was a decades-long career spent on the front covers of Vogue, Harper’s Bazaar, ELLE, Cosmopolitan, Marie Claire, and Playboy, working with some of fashion’s most iconic designers, from Gianni Versace to Halston and Bill Blass to Azzedine Alaïa. Her 2002 memoir, No Lifeguard on Duty, chronicled her undeniably iconic yet frequently mercurial life, deeply humanizing the oft-airbrushed world of the fashion industry.
Despite her massive success, the true triumphs of Janice Dickinson are not marked by her extensive portfolio of Vogue covers or her gripping bestsellers, but rather lie within her resilience in the face of adversity, her fearlessness to challenge societal norms, and her compelling, untamed spirit.
Nearly fifty years later, Dickinson’s story of transformation and defiance continues to reverberate, redefining the meaning of success and mettle in an often vapid world of glitz.
KP: You have a remarkable penchant for reinventing yourself. What is it like having yet another chapter in your life?
JD: Well, I still model, I still do TV shows – I just did I'm a Celebrity… Get Me Out of Here! in England. I'm also thinking of writing book four. Social media I do every day on TikTok and Instagram, and the singing is the newest area of my life. I'm really getting getting encompassed. I have the number-one single on this week's English charts for dance music.
KP: Congratulations! You know, I heard "Floor" – is that it?
JD: That's correct.
KP: It's amazing.
JD: Thank you! So I haven't retired, I just keep going. It's like today, what hat am I wearing? I mean, there's so many. I've been singing around Southern California in nightclubs – I just did a bunch of shows and I seem to have found my niche singing live in front of a bunch of people.
KP: When did you start singing exactly?
JD: A year ago!
KP: Wow, so it's recent!
JD: Yeah. I've made maybe thirty appearances in Southern California and West Hollywood – a lot of my gay friends came in. This is primarily a gay section of town, WeHo.
KP: That's fantastic. Do you work with any producers in particular?
JD: Yeah, I have a producer Ricky Stokes that came to me with the with the initial idea. "What about singing, Janice? You have a great voice and I'd like to produce you." So I said, "Well, come up with some songs and we'll do it." He came up with five songs that we've already recorded and we're still going to make an actual LP.
KP: Speaking of career transitions, what advice would you like to give to women at the beginning of their careers and to those who are newly successful?
JD: I would say no to drugs and alcohol because they really messed me up for a while in my lifetime. After I was in heavily into modeling and had already deemed the moniker "supermodel," I was flying on the Concorde back and forth to Paris, from Paris to Milan, from Milan to London, from London to Japan... It was a cycle that took place four times a year, so I was constantly on an airplane flying to walk in fashion shows for the great designers and doing editorials for magazines. It took up so much time in my life – I would have a couple of drinks, but then it started to stack against me. A couple of drinks early on led to another couple of drinks in the evening, and by the time the evening was over, I'd be plowed. I haven't had a drink now in about 15 years. Sweet and sober. I've given up everything, you know?
I was also taking too much Ambien at night to go to sleep – I couldn't get on the same time schedule since I was flying all the time, so I'd just pop pills to go to sleep, and that also became habit forming. I didn't like to be habit forming with anything. I was also smoking just recently – up until about two years ago – just to get through the days, and then I just quit all of a sudden. I mean, that was starting to get out of control. So I was like, "Why am I doing all of these habitual things that require habit-breaking changes in my life?” So I cut it out. My advice that I give to young women is just to stop doing habit-forming vices before they begin to take over your life.
And to those who are newly successful, I would also say that punctuality is key. It's really important to show up on time, whether it’s for a meeting, an interview, a TV commercial, anything – it's important to always be known for being punctual and professional.
KP: I agree with that. I think that's great advice, actually. And not a lot of people say that – I feel like it should be said much more often than it is. [Laughs].
JD: They don't! You have people strolling into meetings 45 minutes late. You're sitting there, and they don't even say anything when they arrive. They just sit down and go, "Okay, look, where do we begin?" It's like, "Fuck you,” you know? Screw you for being late and not for making it more your business to be on time. This is not this is not on me, this is on you. You kept everyone in this meeting waiting.
KP: I think that's great advice.
JD: Well, then resentments set in and that gets attached to your reputation. It's not a good thing to have.
KP: It's also a hard reputation to shake as well.
JD: That's true.
“I made a lot of mistakes. I was shaped by my mistakes, but the past is done. The future is up to me.”
KP: I recently spoke to Dita Von Teese, whose first book was published by Judith Regan. Your memoir, No Lifeguard on Duty, was published by Judith as well. She has been long-known for giving women a chance to reclaim their stories, which I personally feel is so incredibly important. The book just celebrated its 20th anniversary last year – congratulations – and it's been heralded as an icon of redemption and reclamation.
JD: If you haven't read it, it's fantastic.
KP: It is! It is fantastic. So how do you view the book 20 years out? Is there anything that you would have done differently looking back?
JD: I have no regrets about No Lifeguard on Duty. It was a cautionary tale of incest, sex, drugs, rock and roll, Studio 54, fashion, and just thriving through life and throughout my career. I say a lot in this book – it really was cathartic for me to write. I took you through a spiral – a spiral from being on top of the industry, having fallen off the wagon – it knocked me off my horse – and then having to climb back on the horse to get back on top. It's very, very engaging. I suggest you read it, if you haven't.
KP: Yes, I do too. If anyone hasn’t read it, please do. Coming off of the book as well, you were quoted as saying to the Tampa Bay Times, "I wrote this book to urge people to not keep secrets. I still suffer. The memories are still vivid. I made a lot of mistakes. I was shaped by my mistakes, but the past is done. The future is up to me." As someone who has also made many more mistakes than I'd like to admit, I can relate to that wholeheartedly. And I've always been someone who believes that every day is a new beginning. What advice or inspiration would you lend to women who have trouble either telling their stories or struggling with forgiving themselves for their own actions?
JD: Well, in my case, I had to go to Alcoholics Anonymous in order to give up everything. They put you through a 12-step program, which makes you hold accountability – like what was my part in this day, this incident, or this episode? What what did I do wrong to get fired? It was always about coming back to reflect on that. Instead of pinning the problems onto other people, it always turns the story back onto oneself for anything that goes wrong. You know, a lot of people just blame other people for the problems in their life. So I had AA to fall back on. It really has helped shape who I am today.
KP: That's incredible. How did you find it adjusting from working in analog to the digital world?
JD: Well, I think when technology set in – as far as cameras or with retouching, let's say – they didn't retouch anymore with with with pen or ink or airbrushing, they did it through the cameras, and it started to look really fake, you know? It just started to look cheap to me. I thought that digital cameras weren't as special as regular cameras were back in the day. It was the cameras that mess me up. The digital world, like for social media, just became blown up out of proportion – it has a tsunami effect. Let's say you're Kendall Jenner and you've got like 500 million followers due to the fact that you have a TV show on at the same time that you're you're modeling. I mean, that can be really helpful or it can be very dangerous.
KP: Well, it's interesting, because even when I had Prim – which I founded in 2008 – that was right before the crest of social media. What's been fascinating to me has been how the booking of models has completely changed. As you know, the modeling agencies used to lead with their roster's books and tear sheets, and now they lead with their social media following...
JD: Right. I agree with you.
KP: I can't tell you how many times major agencies would send me their girl saying, "Oh, well, she has 2.5 million followers." And I really don't care about that, to be completely honest. I've never gotten into social media – I just don't care. Can she model? Because that's what I'm looking at. I don't care if she's going to blast this to 2.5 million people. I could do that with advertising for my own company.
JD: Exactly.
KP: So what I care about is... is she good? Can she model? [Laughs]. How do you feel about that?
JD: I think that social media masks the actual talent that models have today. I judge a lot of models and their walk on social media today – it's a side that people really like to see and hear on TikTok. I say that I'll give her an 8 for not putting your shoulders back in this walk, or I’ll say this walk is too choppy so I will give her a 7 because she doesn't know how to stop her arms from going in front of her body, she should put her shoulders back and she should walk with walk in a smoother fashion, like she has a book on her head. Ultimately though, I think that social media has taken the magic out of modeling.
KP: Yeah. And on the flip side, too, I mean, I've worked with models that were far superior than who they were sending me with 2.5 million followers – let's say they have 5,000 followers. And they get the lower day rates! I feel like we need a revolution. But that's a totally different conversation.
JD: And I'd like a day rate.
KP: Yeah, right? [Laughs].
JD: For my position as being a wife.
KP: [Laughs]. I'm sure you'd make a lot of money. You'd make a ton of money.
JD: Yeah.
KP: Can you tell us a little bit about what you have coming up?
JD: Well, I am considering book four. But I have to really sit down and concentrate and I'm not. I'm running around so much with the singing career right now. Singing and doing social media really fills my day up. I have to work out every day – I have to get that in. Don't forget that I'm 68-years-old… the old gray mare ain't what she used to be.
KP: Oh, I think you're being modest. [Laughs].
JD: Well, I still have it. If they want me, I'll still model for anybody that's hiring. But it's not the same as it was. I mean, I never thought about loose skin. You know, I'm even starting starting to get soft in areas of my body. And wrinkles! I never thought about wrinkles. Some wrinkles have started appearing on my face and I'm like, "Oh my god, who's that woman looking back at me in the mirror? Who is that?"
KP: [Laughs]. Well you still look fantastic, wrinkles or no wrinkles.
JD: You're very sweet, but during the pandemic I put covers over all of the mirrors in the house. You know, it's not good to have magnifying mirrors in your bathroom.
KP: [Laughs]. No, I don't think that's good for anybody to have. I’m vehemently opposed to them.
JD: It's really not good. I'd spend all my time tweezing my eyebrows and they were tweezed out of control.
“I think that social media has taken the magic out of modeling.”
KP: I completely understand. I have a no magnifying mirrors rule. [Laughs]. Who have you admired in all of your various incarnations? Are there any women that you have really looked up to either culturally or personally throughout your career?
JD: In my youth, when I was 9-years-old and started getting interested in modeling, I used to look at the magazines and see all of the pictures of Lauren Hutton. You know, I'd see her just gracing the covers of Vogue and sailing across the pages with her energetic vibration that she put into all of her all of her pictures with Richard Avedon – those used to blow me away as a young girl. She became my idol and I admired her so, so much in every aspect of life. I found out that she liked to travel and visited far away places like Africa. Eventually I ended up doing that too – going to visit all of these countries that she had visited – and I saw what she would write about. She's a fantastic one.
I admired a lot of fellow models too, like Iman Bowie – I thought she was terrific. You know, being from Africa and working in the industry as an African woman, I thought she was just amazing. Just to watch her walk down the runway and to see how she was so graceful as opposed to me clodhoppering...
KP: [Laughs].
JD: I didn't have that that graceful of a walk, not like Iman or Pat Cleveland in any way, shape, or form. These are the girls that were getting my attention.
KP: You've had a lot of life experiences as well as some misfortune, but most of all you are known for your comebacks. How have you managed to rebound each time?
JD: I'm going to use my 12-step program as the shining beacon of an example that I fall back on. When I feel like I'm nervous in a situation, I've learned how to breathe. When I feel that I'm getting nervous, I know now that it's not nerves – it's just adrenaline flowing through my body. I can see myself getting a little out of control with my breaths, super excited about something, and I know how to bring it back down to reality with with breathing.
My life experiences as a mother have also really taught me how to become more of a fair human being. And just recently, on January 1st, I became a grandmother.
KP: Oh my god, congratulations!
JD: Thank you very much. My grandson, Leo, is eight months old now. And every time I go to visit Leo – which is usually three or four times a week – all of the anxiety just leaves my body. Playing with this child, reading to him, exploring his toys... I raised two children. My son, Nathan, is 34, my daughter, Savannah, is 27 – she's an actress. I really try to be solid and really try to be there for my family.
For some of my life experiences, I come back to them each time. I call my children to see how they're doing. I kind of use them as a barometer like, "Am I normal today?" Let me just find out how they're doing first and then I'll see if I'm going to be okay. I don't know. Do you understand what I'm talking about?
KP: Yeah, I do.
JD: Do you have kids?
KP: I don't.
JD: It's strange. It's very strange having children. No one gives you a handbook.
KP: I can't imagine.
JD: It's really fucking weird.
KP: I think it takes a lot of strength. I don’t know if I can imagine it for myself, which makes me really admire it in other people.
JD: When I go to see Leo, I kiss him goodbye, and I somehow feel like I've been to an aquatic spa for the day.
KP: [Laughs].
JD: I feel like everything's gone, like all the the heebie jeebies and the itty bitty shitty committee that's inside of me – my nerves are just quelled. So I use the children a lot to bounce back each time.
KP: I love that. Many women admire you for your forthrightness and fearless commentary. How did you get the confidence to be so honest?
JD: As a young child when my father was an incestuous bastard in my household – he was incestuous with my older sister – I swore that I would tell the world that I had an incestuous father one day, and I did. It was my way of getting even with him after putting me through so much shame. But I would have to say that, once again, it's the 12-step program that helped me become more honest with myself. Sometimes in Alcoholics Anonymous they choose you to be the speaker in the room and you have to get up in front of maybe 150 to 200 people, or 75, or 30… you tell them where you're at today and what's going on with you. You really dig deep.
I'm not blaming my father for all of my problems – it's just as far as being a truthful person, I became very honest when I decided to come forward with with how I was raised. And that helped me a lot with fearlessness because there's no bad guy in my life anymore. There's nobody that's going to take me out of a closet. He used to lock me in closets. He was crazy. He would say things to me growing up that I would just answer on the spot truthfully to him, and it was always when my mother wasn't around that he would slap me across the face for just mentioning how he was as a man. I would get punished.
So I swore to myself that I would never hold back with meaningful things in my life. If I saw something going on, like a parent hitting a child in a grocery store, I would come out and stand up for the child just to try to protect these children that are going through a rough time. I'm involved in a lot of children's charities as well.
KP: That's extremely admirable.
JD: Charity work is is a big part of my life. I also do a lot of work for people who have suffered from AIDS. It's helped me come out of my shell.
KP: That's incredible. It's so important. And so, this is our namesake final question that we end every interview with. What do you feel makes a provocative woman?
JD: A great sense of self lends itself to provocation.
KP: I love that.
JD: It's everything – it's how we dress ourselves, how we put together outfits, how we we want the world to see us as we see ourselves. I mean, I don't really go out of the house looking like a slob – I always try to have a nice hairdo and a nice manicure and pedicure and some light makeup on. I've never caught not looking my utmost best because I've been paparazzi'd so much that I've learned how to avoid the pitfalls of looking bad.
I can be provocative in my marriage with with my husband, sometimes playfully provocative to get my way. Like, well, I don't want to watch that on television, I'd rather watch a romance flick instead of World War Two pictures.
KP: [Laughs].
JD: So maybe I'll go in my bedroom and put on a slip instead of sweats.
KP: [Laughs]. Yeah.
JD: I'll put on a slip and some puffy shoes with some feathers on it.
KP: [Laughs]. I think that's a really good – that's one of my favorite answers: a great sense of self.
JD: It's just about being big and being fabulous and fearless. It's all about your attitude in life.
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Photography (in order of appearance): Susan Wood, Arun Nevader, Tony Viramontes, Ron Galella
